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Joined: 11/03/2007
Posts: 4
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Posted: Jul/01/2008 9:18 AM PST
I have a local instructor (senior in years) who is telling me to keep my head down throughout the swing. He wants me to overcome the restriction of shoulder turn going back by cocking my head slightly to the right. My problem is that I do not see how I can complete the finish without bringing my head up at the end. It seems to me that I have to time the upper body and head to move to the finish after impact. Am I missing something or is this well-intentioned coach just from the old school?
I am at a place where I can agree with the fundamentals of the concept. I can see how this is the best way to finish a good putting stroke and I can make it work for me on the green. The problem that I see is that the finish position of the full swing is not the same as a putt.
On a full swing I would like to finish in a balanced position with my chest pointing at the target, weight in front and up on my right toe. I can see in stop-action pictures how Tiger, Treavor and others do those things and are also able to keep their heads down through impact. What I am searching for is the "how" and a good "feel" that I can incorporate in the swing to make it happen. I don't think that I can depend on my right shoulder to carry the upper body up because I don't want my upper body and arms to become disconnected. Keeping the arms in a triangle out in front of me seems to be a very important part of the two-plane method. When I lose that I seem to lose the swing.
Any suggestions regarding how to transition or time the head-down to head-up position would be greatly welcomed! ... Thanks
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West Lothian
Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 119
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Posted: Jul/01/2008 11:34 AM PST
Keeping your head down can sometimes be bad advice.
I prefer to say (and think) Eyes down and chin up. I wear glasses and look at the ball almost through the bottom of the lens. Keeping the chin up allows your shoulder to rotate under whilst looking at the ground (ie 'Head Down'). Your head will then come up as the swing finishes
So try that 'Eyes down, chin up'.
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Joined: 4/17/2008
Posts: 36
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Posted: Jul/01/2008 12:35 PM PST
I've had a big problem with keeping my head down and ball striking the last two times I went out to play. Constantly pulling my head up and topping the ball. (have had a lot on my mind lately and haven't been able to focus on the game when I play.)
Yesterday, I moved the ball back about 2 inches in my stance, and it seemed to help, especially with the 3 and 5 wood and hybrid. A few times off the tee, I kept my head staring straight down at the ball, through impact and everything and that didn't seem to help one bit.
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Joined: 11/03/2007
Posts: 4
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Posted: Jul/02/2008 4:51 AM PST
Good point. I look just over the bottom rim of my lenses.
Thanks for your input.
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Joined: 11/03/2007
Posts: 4
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Posted: Jul/02/2008 4:56 AM PST
Lifting your head can be the worst thing for a good swing. I think that I do that when I get tired. I have been researching golf tips on this web site and have found that there is some lateral movement of the head along with the natural movement of the spine in a good golf swing. I am still searching for a good swing feel or key that will help solidify the movement for me.
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Joined: 5/01/2008
Posts: 57
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Posted: Jul/02/2008 5:22 PM PST
There are only two things to remember about head position in the golf swing. First, the head must remain level to the ground. This serves to "compress the coil of the spring" (Keeping the energy of the coil from releasing vertically), as well as to maintain "measurement" to the ball. For this reason, I believe it best to not "tilt" the head ala Nicklaus, allowing the eyes to remain square in order to maintain visual head level. Second, the head must appear over the inside of the leverage leg thigh at the top. Some teachers recommend a tilting of the spine in order to preset the head into this position at address. I prefer to allow the head to move that roughly 1.5 inches away from the target, which is nothing more than accommodating the lateral move of the BASE of the spine due to hip coil. If either method is not employed, the spine will then be tilted toward the target which is a reverse pivot (thus the old adage "get behind the ball"). Either method works. Allowing the head to shift however, eliminates any thought of what to do with the head at change of direction through hit and beyond. It will naturally follow the spine back to it's original address position and rise with the rotating shoulders as the lower torso/hips supinate.
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san clemente
Joined: 1/14/2008
Posts: 257
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Posted: Jul/02/2008 9:23 PM PST
Over the years the way a good swing is taught has changed, an older
teacher will build a swing one element at a time first the grip then the head then the turn and weight shift but from the start you are making full swings and you end up with a swing that fits your body
and works for you
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St Louis
Joined: 8/16/2007
Posts: 109
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Posted: Jul/03/2008 6:52 AM PST
I shot the best round yesterday that I have shot in a long time and I attribute it to keeping my eye on the ball through contact and not taking the club back too far. I every sport you are told to keep your eye on the ball so I equated my golf swing to stroking a tennis ball. After you strike the ball you do not keep your head down but follow the flight of the ball. I am trying this with the golf swing that is keeping my eyes on the ball till I make contact and then let my momentum carry my head to a more natural position. When I raise my head too early I either hit it thin or push it off to the left. I had nine pars yeaterday missed shooting a 38 on the back by two strokes. Putting was as problem as was course management. TREES ARE NOT 90 PERCENT AIR!!!! If I would have chipped out on one hole I would not have taken a 7. I do equate this all to watching the ball till the club contacts it. That has made me keep my head down. I find the closer I am to the green the more I want to look up. Alo I am not taking the club back as far and this is helping me also. I will be interested to hear any thoughts on this.
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Joined: 5/01/2008
Posts: 57
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Posted: Jul/03/2008 10:46 AM PST
Quote: Originally posted by Stinger41 Alo I am not taking the club back as far and this is helping me also. I will be interested to hear any thoughts on this.
 You struck a nerve with that statement, making me want to get on a soapbox, which I'll try to avoid.
What you are doing by shortening your swing is allowing the very powerful principles of leverage and swing compression to take priority over length of swing. You can wrap it around two or three times going back if you want, but if you lose leverage and compression, you have not only gained nothing, you can't possibly swing with authority. Nothing trumps leverage in the golf swing. Without it, developing swing "feel" is impossible.
Length of swing depends upon your individual viable range of motion. I call it VROM, which is the only definition of the "top" of the swing in my book. Yours can be as deep as John Daly or as short as Dana Quigley, and anything in between. As long as you stay inside it, the swing not only becomes simpler to execute, it becomes much more accurate and powerful; breach it and the opportunity for serious error increases exponentially.
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St Louis
Joined: 8/16/2007
Posts: 109
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Posted: Jul/03/2008 12:04 PM PST
When I posted "not taking the club back as far" I really ment to say I was as you suggested "Staying inside my comfort zone" I found that on a practice swing I did not "force the club" as I seemed to be doing when I actually swung to strike the ball. I also found that I did not always accelerate through the ball, thinking that slow and smooth meant i was swinging too easy on the downswing, which at times would allow my left arm to bend causing me to hit it fat. I now take the club back to where seemes to be just a few inches short of forcing it and then accelerate through the ball. I am playing tomorrow so I will see how this all works out. I do agree that every persons swing is different and you have to find what works for you. There are really only a few basic fundementals in the golf swing and the rest of the swing you have to adapt to your body and your physical fitness.
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